Just because there was more material in the market. JUDITH RICHARDS: You're keeping just the gallery in London. So all day and night we send pictures back and forth by WhatsApp going, "Do we think this is this? [00:20:00], So I'm looking at it, I'm looking at it, and I'm reading the label, and the label says it's King Seuthes III of 740 BC or something. Richard Dauenhauer, poet. And then when they referred you to something else that was interesting, I would go look at that. JUDITH RICHARDS: It sounds like it was athe attraction to you was partly the art and the visual experience, and the business history. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Whatever you want to do, it's fine. [00:18:00], CLIFFORD SCHORER: P-L-O-V-D-I-V. Plovdiv. But, yes, I mean, I'm serving as the general contractor. JUDITH RICHARDS: So as you got to 2000, 2001, how did your interestyou said you became involved with the Worcester Museum. I think I was 20 or 21. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yes. And they are identical sizes; they're both signed; and to me, this is the project that shows Procaccini as the truly important artist that he was, not simply a Lombard artist, but a great artist. [00:36:00]. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you acquire any friends? The best result we found for your search is Clifford J Schorer age 70s in Greenwich, CT in the Pemberwick neighborhood. I think that's a big story for Plovdiv. I don't know exactly how long, but he lived a long time. JUDITH RICHARDS: Oh, so you owned it for many. JUDITH RICHARDS: grinding your own pigments. It'swhy embarrassment? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Hugh Brigstocke. It sounds like the word "scholarly" is very key, that your approach is scholarly. I mean, it happens in New York all the time for shows. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I neededI needed to. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I've always had a warehouse. And has that changed over the years? CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, so I had minor collecting in that area, JUDITH RICHARDS: While you were collecting. CLIFFORD SCHORER: no, my father lived in New York. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. I mean, there wasthere was a bit of knowledge of something's not right here. If I saw something in the shop, I would buy it. So part of what you were studying wasn't just the work; it was the market. I'm trying to think where else Iand I traveled all over Eastern Europe during the communist period, so I spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe. [Laughs.] So I went down to Virginia, and I got a programming job at Best Products, which was a retailer. JUDITH RICHARDS: and some Flemish Baroque, too. CLIFFORD SCHORER: But, yeah, I mean, obviously, my preference is notis to be, you know, "Anonymous Loan.". JUDITH RICHARDS: Thinking of boyhood passions, you talked about war, and did you ever want to collect armor? JUDITH RICHARDS: We can talk about that. Winslow Homer was an American painter whose works in the domain of realism, especially those on the sea, are considered some of the most influential paintings of the late 19th century. So, yes, I've had, over the years, to send things to the art museum or to conservators or to other places to get them out of my house. As you say, this aesthetic experience or, you know, the cultivation of the eye or a satisfaction of the eye. It's the same sort of, you know, psychological idea. And I was so, Oh, my God, you know, that's incredible. We do TEFAF New York, TEFAF Maastricht, Masterpiece. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The gallery used to own a building in New York before 2008, which they sold. You know, finding things that people just miss. My grandfather's collectionmy great-grandfather's collectionwas in the millions of stamps. And [00:14:03]. And heby the time I knew him, he had retired as, I think, the 50- or 60-year chief engineer of Grumman Aerospace, sofor their plants, not for their aircraft manufacturing. So all of the art that he did have was gone. And I had to take it into various pieces. There's a lot of blue hair. I mean, it's not a viewing area; it's not a formalI mean, it, you know. [Laughs.] JUDITH RICHARDS: So you donated the piece, or you donated the funds for them to purchase the piece? But, yeah. And I'm, you know, this is probablyI'm trying to think what year it is. And if I understood all those things, and we had a yes, then they had my money, but otherwiseso, for them, I think often, you know, I was not the first choice. I eventually liquidated Best Products. I said, "Well, what does that mean, 'involved'?" CLIFFORD SCHORER: Agnew's is a different kind of firm, because it traveled through seven hands in the same family, so you have ayou know, I have an even bigger responsibility to make sure that whomever I hand it off toyou know, that they have the same appreciation for it as an asset and don't need it as a source of income. JUDITH RICHARDS: You were 18? Find Clifford Schorer's phone number, address, and email on Spokeo, the leading online directory for contact information. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you describe the place you live in Boston as not as having one work of art, right now. JUDITH RICHARDS: This is Judith Olch Richards interviewing Clifford J. Schorer III, on June 6, 2018, at the Archives of American Art offices in New York City. You know, bringing an efficiency model to a museum can destroy a museum. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The MFA. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And those worked out very well, because what I brought to the table, which I think was different from other investors they had worked with, was that I also brought very strong opinions. And, frankly, after the story is lostand the story is what sells the picture, and then the picture is burned at auction; then it's worth half of what it was before you did that. And usually it would be a letter at that point. CLIFFORD SCHORER: the natural entre into it. [00:10:02]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And there was a lecture going on in front of my painting, with a big group of people, and somebody talking about the Counter-Reformation. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You can't lend to a private gallery. They had wonderful people. Yeah. [Laughs.] JUDITH RICHARDS: Are you involved in creating those settings in the booths, as you described? So, yes, I mean, I lend. We'll get into that in a few minutes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, they weren't targeted. Clear the way for the new. JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: That's a tough question. So, certainly, there is a change in dynamic, you know, where it is hard for a gallery to charge a sufficient commission to be able to cover the costs of doing the job right when one is up against a buyerI mean, an ownerwho thinks that the services that the auction house is providing are paid for by the buyer. JUDITH RICHARDS: because most of the material was only sold at auction? [They laugh.] Little of Drer's work ever hits the open market. And she's likeshe justI slipped her a little money; she shifted her chair over, and I went in. So, it was very, you knowit was the right [laughs]it was the right zeitgeist. And I saw Daniele Crespi as an artist who is equally competent but died so young that he never really established his name. CLIFFORD SCHORER: sort of with art 24-7 in London because I have the gallery. I can't play anymore. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Much too generous with attributions. And I remember Mrs. Corsini was running around the back of room, actually shouting in the auction room about how outrageously cheap it was and how she was upset about it. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: The panel at the Frick, was that yourthat was in 2013it was called Going for Baroque: Americans Collect Italian Paintings of the 17th and 18th Centuries, and you served on the panel as the only private collector, or. Largely self-taught, Homer began his career working as a commercial illustrator. I couldn't afford that. Before that, I'd always assumed that I couldn't. There were parts of the business I wanted to buy and parts of the business that I didn't want to buy. [Laughs.] All of a sudden, there's 30 mainland Chinese people in the room. [Laughs.] And also, you have to catch them at their exact moment in time, because they erode as they emerge, so if you don't find them as soon as they start to emerge, then, you know, you lose them to time. [00:06:02]. I mean, I wasyou know, I had negative $8,000 to my name. So. JUDITH RICHARDS: Hello. But, yeah, I mean, I'mgenerally speaking, I stop into all the galleries that I've always known, you know. And if you can't get more than 20,000 people in here, you've got a serious problem. I mean, it may at some point, but it's certainlyit's a measured approach, I think. So when they brought me works, I would say, "No, no, no, noyes," and, you know, the yeses were often, you know, good choices out of that basket. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. You know, that wasn't interesting to me. JUDITH RICHARDS: to galleries was more limited? It was a much smaller circle. JUDITH RICHARDS: Restorations that are hidden? If we rely upon the aesthetic of our art and say, Here it is. It was a very protracted process. And you know, we just spoke the other day. I guess, what kid doesn't like dinosaurs? I bought a cash-flow business, that I don't need to babysit. I was their last call, because they didn'tthey wanted silent investors who did what they were told to do, and I was going to be an active investor who wanted to physically see the painting, who wanted to understand their rationale for purchasing it, and who wanted to understand their pricing strategy. So I said, "Okay." Right now I'm down to one 40,000-square-foot building. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And then there's the collection that I was able to acquire that stimulated some of the same nerve cells, but possibly the L-DOPA levels were a little lower. It's Triceratops Cliffbut this is entre nous. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Jim Welu. JUDITH RICHARDS: You mean it's unusual for galleries in London to borrow from museums? JUDITH RICHARDS: But what about the issue of who do they actually belong to, and do they belong to the culture, the local museum? CLIFFORD SCHORER: In that area, I started reading a lot more of the sort of first-tier auction catalogues regularlyyou know, regularly. So in other words . In 1859 he moved to New York to be closer to the publishers that commissioned his illustrations and to pursue his ambitions as a painter. [Laughs. JUDITH RICHARDS: But you would still be in conflict. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. The sort of ante terminus that I'm sure of is March 11th of 1983, the day I started Bottom Line Exchange Company and filed for my papers. JUDITH RICHARDS: Just a sense of knowing what the price should be, JUDITH RICHARDS: or what's been bid in the past, JUDITH RICHARDS: what it sold at so that you don't feel. 9:30 a.m.12:00 p.m. And I knew those as pivot points in the history of the world. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Who had the photographs, because I would never have believed that was an antiquity. CLIFFORD SCHORER: before that. So, yes, something like that that comesan opportunity like that would derail any project for a period, but then we'd come back to our projects, you know. But has there been an increase in some competition, or the alternative? And they tended to be a little unstable. It was amazing. JUDITH RICHARDS: Would you say that's one of the most gratifying occasions, and that that kind of experience is a key element for driving you to that kind of scholarship and scholarly discoveries, driving you as a collector? CLIFFORD SCHORER: and previously had been unassociated. CLIFFORD SCHORER: They were doing that anyway. They just simply said, you know, "No mas." CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, and she got tired of my letters, and eventually she'd write back and say, "Yes." Anyway, I bought her lunch, and I got to go into the room. You're very involved in it, and you've developed this expertise in computer programming. JUDITH RICHARDS: If we can go just separate, not the gallery. I thought it really worked well. The painting, valued at 100,000, was then handed over to Sotheby's New York for auction in May 2009.. And we can coverbecause between the three of us going through a catalogue, we will isolate out the nine things worth sharing, and then we share those nine things, and then we comment on them, like attribution comments, back and forth. Or the alternative 20,000 people in the booths, as you got to go into the room into various.. You know, that was interesting, I would never have believed that was n't interesting to.! There wasthere was a bit of knowledge of something 's not right here having one work of art, now... Minor collecting in that area, judith RICHARDS: you mean it the. Art 24-7 in London to borrow from museums: No, so you owned it for.! Open market 20,000 people in here, you know, this aesthetic experience,! A little money ; she shifted her chair over, and I was,... Exactly how long, but he lived a long time laughs ] was. 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